Men act tough. Women act tender. Just be fake.

DISCUSSION FORUM:
feminism and its influence on the portrayal of sexual power

This is an archive page for April 2000.
Where reader comments are of interest or raise significant points I will publish my response in dialogue pages such as this one. (Private comments are not published.) Reader comment excerpts are in black text and my replies in red text.
Please send your scathing critiques and observations to email address

From: luna67@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000

I'm replying to your day in the life of a feminist.

I'm sorry sir, but it seems like you are a little bitter about the world around you. I'm sorry your girlfriend won't take the time to see you side of the day and I am sorry that it seems you had a shitty day. Why do you think your girlfriend was so upset with you when your tried to please her?

I'm sorry you are bitter. I should not have to appologize to you because I do not know you. You sound like you just don't want your girlfriend to make more money than you. Do you feel like you have to make more money than her? Are you upset that you cook dinner, do the dishes, and the vacuuming? Aren't those chores that should be divided between the two of you?

Well, I hope the questions I have asked have made you think about your day. I think you just looked for all of the feminist aspects of your day and did you even notice on the radio, in the news, or on the buss, the male aspects of life?

From: Webidentity@aol.com
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000

Women get paid less then men in the same occupation. Sure, some women get paid alot for what they do, but still not as much as a man. And if a woman does succeed and let's say, put in a position where she is ahead of men, she would not be respected as much as a man would be in that same position. The white man basically is the king of the free world. Women and African Americans, although have equal rights, still are struggling in a country that says all are equal and free. Don't let the "acceptence" of the equality fool you. There is still a long way to go before women are recognized as men with breasts. I mean, come on people, when you get right down to it, there is no difference between the sexes. (Putting aside the physical attributes of course.) I mean, for crying out loud, just because we look different doesn't mean we are a different species. Men and women I think would like to believe they are different, because, well, it makes them feel different, or special, or somehow related to who they are. We as human beings should not take pride in our gender, we should take pride in our individuality. The world gives so many rules, and opinions on what a man and woman should be, when the only thing we should be is ourselves. What? Because a man likes to wear lipstick, does that mean he is gay? How would that change his sexuality? Because a woman is into cars and doesn't wear make-up does that mean she is a lesbian? No. That is who they are. Get rid of the stereotypes. Listen to Calvin Klein: "Be tough. Be tender. Just Be."

Skip to next entry or continue with my reply.
Men and women could be viewed as equal in some ways. They could also be viewed as deserving to be viewed as equal, while not actually being equal in practice. In turn there is an argument that we might want to differentiate between different areas where equality is more real and typcial and areas where it is dramatically absent. But I don't think any one rule applies.

People should certainly consider abandoning some aspects of behaviour that typically belongs only to their sex and think about being freer in the way they interact with other men and other women. However the decision to do this is not easy. Our sexual identity as males and females provides a certain amount of status and security that is unique to that sex. There is a mystique to both being male and female. I like women who are not too feminine in their actions and who can relate to my male identity. I guess this combines with your point, because in a sense it is a great relationship between a male and female where they both recognise that they are human and yet the cream on the cake of their attraction is that they are sexual "opposites."

From: "kmpole" kmpole@senet.com.au
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000

Your site is probably one of the best "anti-feminist" sites I could find, so thanks. I'm entering a public speaking competition and the topic is "Feminism. Has it gone too far?" I really wanted to say it has gone too far, but then the coach pulled out all these examples of Arabic women, and African genital mutilation and so on, and I got all confused. If you look at a world-wide perspective I guess there are lots of places that could do with some feminism (assuming that feminism is the promotion of EQUAL rights for women), but in our society (i.e. Australia and other western places) it's probably gone far enough, or even too far when feminists stop fighting for equal rights, and move on to actually degrading men, which I guess is what you're talking about. If you don't mind I'd really like to use your site as a main reference (just quote some of your examples maybe)...obviously not rip any of it off, but just because I really haven't found anything any better. So yeah, what you say is generally reasonable, and you seem like a nice guy. But having said that, all three of the Bronte sisters actually DID change their names so they could get published, I think it wasn't until they were really successful (or maybe dead) that they revealed themselves. Maybe they were lesbians, I dunno.

Skip to next archive (March 00) or continue with my reply.
The coach may either be feminist or is trying to criticise your argument to make sure that you can respond to all kinds of attacks that may be launched against you during a debate.

One issue that comes up in this regard, or that you can put forward, is that the experiences of African and Arab women is vastly different, subject to different cultural imperatives and in some respects archaic. Feminism is largely a modern movement for modern women. The validity and insight of the theory and its legitimacy should therefore largely be directed to our present culture.

Feminists often use reference to cultures in another part of the world, or even 100 years ago to claim that all women are oppressed. It's a misleading argument, even if it were true. Whether or not women are oppressed here or indeed in any other part of the world or in any other period in history brings several issues. Are they uniquely oppressed or is it a condition that all people in that culture experience more or less? Secondly, is oppression really what we are looking at or repression, or even the restrictions that go with civilised society? Repression of sexual urges is a typical phenomenon that is associated with civilised human conduct. Finally, where does the repression or oppression come from? Is it really organised by males, or perhaps some women themselves? Sorry, all I am doing here is asking questions here. But these are fundamental issues that can be explored and logical arguments can be built up on that basis.

Arguing that Arab women are oppressed for example, is a very difficult challenge that could have lots of questions. I have been to Arab countries and I think there are many repressive aspects of their culture, but they are not all bad, and their repressive aspects don't only apply to women. For example, I saw a documentary on Egypt where young women are wearing the veil in fair numbers voluntarily. They argue that it makes them ATTRACTIVE because men will believe that they are good girls, not flirtatious, etc. That's a surprising feature.

Are some cultures genuinely oppressive of women? Yes I suspect there probably are. Even if you cannot view them as completely oppressive, in some way the antagonisms and power plays between men and women is really counterproductive and degrading for the women. Cultures with lots of machismo are probably like this. Also, any society where there is a high level of general violence, gang warfare, dangerous streets, is likely to be particularly bad for women. However, this does not come up as an issue in feminist dialogue, to my knowledge.

Whose Next??

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