DISCUSSION FORUM:
feminism and its influence on the portrayal of sexual power



This is an archive page for December 2000.

Where reader comments are of interest or where they raise significant points I will publish my response in dialogue pages such as this one. Reader comment excerpts are in black and my replies in red.
Please send your scathing critiques and observations to the sarcasmo@bigpond.com


From: "dragon" dragon@vance.net
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000

Women always say that they want to date a nice guy, but they just can't find any. While men know that there are plenty of nice guys out there, but the women won't go out with them. The women keep dating bad-boys who treat them like dirt and the nice guy is left alone as a platonic friend. I have decided to tell the world why this happens. It isn't because the nice guy is nice that women won't go out with him. Also, it isn't because women want to be treated like dirt by the bad-boys because they don't want to be treated that way. The answer is really quite simple. It is a simple matter of biology. Women are attracted to Dominant males. It is for this reason that women find the bad-boys so appealing. Bad-boys are seen by women as strong, powerful, and in charge. The nice guy is seen as kind, caring, compassionate, but weak and submissive. People laughed when V.P. Al Gore was told by a feminist campaign advisor to act like an Alpha Male but that was actually good advice. Certainly better advice than trying to sue ones way into the White House :-) As much as women think that they want an equal relationship with a man their body betrays them because million of years of evolution has left them with a built in desire to pick the strongest and most powerful mate a.k.a. the Alpha Male. It is this desire that leads women into terrible relationships where they are beaten and abused. I know nice guys who would gladly treat a women with love and kindness but think they have to slap a woman around to keep her happy. Because no matter what they say about how they want a nice man to treat them right. Their own experience shows them that women wouldn't touch a nice man with a ten foot pole. I offer this explanation so that nice guys can know that particular approach isn't necessary. You can treat a woman with love and kindness. You just have to remind her who wears the pants in the family and she will be as happy as a kitten. I know many women will not accept this explanation and probably call me a sexist pig but it is the truth. I was one of those nice guys and for the longest time I couldn't figure out why women kept dating men who treated them like shit. Once I figured it out and started acting as a dominate male or sexist pig as some of you will call me I had women eating out of the palm hand. That's just my own pithy observation, based on experience, of course :-)

Skip to next entry or continue with my reply.
The subject you raise deserves comment but at the same time the issues are quite complicated. To some extent it is true that many women like men who are tougher and nastier and more selfish. At least, that is the way it appears to men who see themselves as kinder, gentler and selfless. But this perception is slightly delusory too. In the first instance, men who imagine that they are being nice and civil are often displaying signs of undue meekness and lack of assertiveness. This lack of presence and significance puts a lot of women off, who are looking for the best archetypal characteristics in their males. A lot of the time the meekness of these men is also related to their limited perception of what is appealing to women and also their fear of imagining that their behaviour and personality (in the presence of women) could be dictated by their own self-interest. It is a case of thinking of her as the centre of action and himself being just there to ensure that she feels good and is served. In reaction to this and in opposition to this is the sexist male that you identify. This man is the complete opposite and represents everything that is defficient in the civilised man. Now it is probably true that a lot of these men do have more success with women, and yet this is also slightly illusory. How long can such a male make an impression on a woman before she either sees the limits of this kind of behaviour or realises that her needs are not being met. The tables have been turned.

Another interesting problem is that many men think that their sexual success rests on being like the selfish sexist man. However, they are not like that really. They seek to emulate that model of man without understanding exactly what they are doing. That can lead to disaster when the woman finally sees through the facade. Ultimately, your value and status as a man comes from a journey of trying to balance civility with your own self interest. It does not need to involve self-conscious sexism. Things that you do may appear to be sexist in some cases, but mainly just represent a reasonable expression of your interest relative to that of the woman.


From: Paige kiwi_chick17@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000

Hi, recently came across your website, I like many of the articles on it so far. :)

I consider myself a feminist but I disagree with much of the radical feminist theories, mainly in that women are not a true minority and that to make us out as victims means that we can be victimised. Also many of their stances to make things 'equal' are actually unfair on males, or to society in general.

In the past women may not have been valued but that has changed thanks to the suffragettes and feminists but currently men are disadvantaged... women are told that we can be all that we want, we can work, be mothers, do both, whatever... men appear to be left directionless, I look at my younger brother who doesn't really know what he's doing with his life and isn't really recieving any encouragement from the govt or elsewhere, why isn't he being told that he is valued as a being too?

Yes, things are not completely equal at times for women - I haven't encountered pay problems as yet (am still a student) but I know people who have encountered this. However, it is not so much that we need to focus on making things equal between men and women but educating people to value everyone and their opinions.

Skip to next entry or continue with my reply.
I appreciate your healthy and open attitude to the subject. The ability and willingness to see that there are two sides to the story is very important. You reveal a capacity to recognise that in the first instance we are all humans, vulnerable and confused and seeking out a path for our lives. This dilemma is faced by both males and females to different degrees and at different times. Who suffers more?! It is impossible to say and probably not worthwhile but it is important to recognise the struggle and condition of each person as legitimate in some way. It is probably a difficult historic time for males and females because there has been rapid social and economic change for both sexes, requiring us to change our aspirations and behaviour.


From: Dawn marduk73@netzero.net
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000

You have got to be kidding. Men are more like landlords than visitors in their homes, and women are their live-in unpaid help. And yes, men do perform the most dangerous jobs in society, but only because women are not given equal access to these jobs. A man who becomes a police officer is told, "Oh, that's wonderful. You're a hero." A woman who becomes a police officer is told, "You're being foolish and selfish. Quit your job and have babies like nature intended."

Female murderers are extremely rare. Most women who commit murder kill their children, not their husbands. Can't really use "battered woman's syndrome" as a defense there. And that defense really doesn't work as often as the media would have you believe. Put it this way; it works about as often as "I didn't rape her, it was consensual sex" works for men.

Yes, women have always had power "behind the scenes." But wouldn't it be nice if we could get men to treat us like equals so we don't have to resort to manipulation? We don't want to limit our power to sneaking and conniving. We want to be openly strong and powerful, a luxury men have held throughout history. Is that too much to ask?


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