I must say that there are a few points you make that upset me. Yes, I am a woman, lets get that out of the way immediately. I agree that there is discrimination against men, but you say you would like to look at this objectively, so lets do that. I am assuming you are a male. That said, how often do you walk down the street carrrying mace in your hand and watching everything around you because you are afraid you will be raped? How often do you check all of the locks on your doors and your windows at night to make sure that someone will not break into your home and attack you? How many times have you had to worry that when you enter a store you may not be waited on, or worse yet you will be mocked or taken advantage of because of your gender? How many times have you had to worry that you will not be taken seriously by your male coworkers because of your gender? How many times have you been terrified to go home because you will be beaten and degraded and belittled? How many times have you been afraid to leave your abuser because you don't want to leave your children behind to face them? How many times have you had to worry where you would go if you should leave your abuser, and what others will say to you for leaving? You see, these (and believe me, much, much more) are all things that woman have to think about, worry about, and obsess about day and night, every single second of their lives. No, I am not into the entire "damn the man" fight, and I don't believe most women are. What I do believe is that most men do have honest intentions, as do most women. You want to talk about specific cases, and you make several "generalizations" but lets really be honest here, and lets not talk about the one, or two, or maybe even three cases where the "domestic violence law" has wrongly granted freedom to a murderer. Instead, lets talk truth, and lets talk of the overwhelming majority of these circumstances. The truth is that most domestic violence cases involve a man abusing a woman. The truth is that most domestice violence cases never see a courtroom, and if they do, the abuser usually receives a mere slap on the hand. You made a point of mentioning that most men are alienated by their children during a divorce, which leads "them to commit bizarre crimes of retribution" Lets analyze that. Now, if the man is under so much pressure, stress, psychological trauma simply because his children "have been turned against him", is it not fair to say then, that a woman, who is punched, kicked, bitten, spit on, slapped, thrown around, and told they were worth nothing on a regular basis could be led into the same type of "bizarre act of retaliation"? Yes.

I must tell you, from my own personal experience as a woman, that I do not believe that women have the same voice in society as men do. I am not a feminist, I do not rant and rave that men oppress me (as I am sure many would like to portray me), and I was not raised by my parents to see women or men as more powerful or either sex as less equal. In fact, everything I have stated has come from my own experience as a woman in society, and upon entering the real world, I have discovered that I was very naive to the world views of sexism. You see, I too, felt that the talk of women not being treated equally, and receiving the same rights, etc. was "a vast myth about a wholesale female oppression that now dominates popular perception" created by uzi-yeilding nazi type females with short haircuts. Unfortunately, I must admit that my views have changed from the naive to the utter realization that women are not treated equally in any respect. In all honesty and fairness to men, I know only a handful of men who really do not respect women, but that does not mean the men I know believe that women are their equals. To put it simply, you may respect a child, but do you believe that the answer, the solution, the suggestions they make are valid at all times? I doubt it. The best way to understand what women face is to view it in that perspective. Would you expect to be treated fairly, or would you be treated fairly if you were looked at in this way? While the old adage "women and children first" is a wonderful statement, how often is this really true? I worked for a year in a major corporation, which has always been a traditionally male industry, and I felt it. I knew I was a woman who had crossed over into territory where women were not wanted every single day. I had to fight for my views and thoughts to be heard and understood, and I was never taken seriously.

I have objectively read and respectfully thought about what you have written, and I will hope you will give my comments the same thoughtfulness. I am not condemning your views, but I am hoping that you will take a step back for a moment and consider the experiences I have had as a woman in todays world. I am very thankful that our role in society is gradually getting better and better, but sadly, we still have a long road ahead of us. Thank you for your time.

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You raised a large number of issues that all allude to events that ostensibly are unique to women. This includes being afraid of being (sexually) attacked and concern about being robbed at night. I can assure you that very few of these issues can be seen as unique to women. In addition, while some of your concerns are real they also smack of grotesque exaggeration. I will for example acknowledge that women may have a distinct concern about being alone at night. A woman's experience of the city is likely to be subject to sexual harrassment and unwelcome interest far more frequently than for most men. But this does not mean that men do not also experience these things. In fact men are far more likely to be assaulted in public areas, in part because some men choose to direct their aggression to their fellow men. Women are sometimes afraid of sexual assault, but certainly not at every moment of the day. If you do harbor such a fear then it might border on the paranoid.

The whole tone of your argument is designed to indicate that I have no understanding of women's experience and that only women experience these various concerns. This attitude does not reflect on my insensitivity but on your own incapacity to understand your fellow human male. I can assure you that I also do not necessarily feel comfortable at night if I am staying in a house alone. My concern or distress may not be as acute as some women might feel but it is also not absent.

Even the issue of violence is misunderstood by you. Again, I need to tell you that plenty of men have experienced violence at the hands of women. I know them personally and I have heard their account. I have experienced it myself. It is one of the great denials of our culture and it suggests that our representation of men and women is distorted.

Most domestic violence cases are not necessarily by men against women. Our society gets outraged by male violence and intimidation, as it rightly should, but it denies that the opposite can occur altogether. Yet there is both plenty of formal research and annecdotal evidence to indicate that women are frequently violent or intimidating or abusive or manipulative.

Having said all the above, it does not mean that I cannot acknowledge some sympathy to women's experience and perspective. Women do experience restrictions in their cultural and political representation and freedoms. Do not men experience similar things in ways that are not immediately tangible?

From: Daniel and Stephanie dansteph@ecentral.com
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000

I am a third-year law student in Colorado and have been researching the possibility that femininst have exaggerated the existence of patriarchy dominiance in our societies. I believe there is a lot of credence to your claims. I think to further the discussion it is important to provide the opposite perspective on a one of your fundamental examples that your argument is based on.

You argue that "men do the hardest and most dangerous work in society" and that this is not acknowledged (by women, I assume). It must be said that this fact is of your creation. Men do in fact still do the hardest and most dangerous work - but, this is because you have refused to let women do it. Women do not prevent men from participating in women-dominated work such as teaching and nursing. But, men have staunchly refused for generations to allow women to be firefighters, miners and the like. We had to go to court just to get this opportunity. It is one thing to have a man refuse to allow a woman opportunities because of her sex. It is entirely different to say "we refuse to allow women these opportunities and we're going to blame it on women when we do". If you don't like that men do the hardest and most dangerous work - step aside and let women have the opportunity. See, this is the essence of power and patriarcy. You had the power to exclude women, you exercised the power to exclude and then blame women for not giving you recognition for being the sole sex to do that type of work. When you are not allowed to be a firefighter because of your sex - then you can complain.

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